Resilience After Loss: Walking Through Grief Together

Coach Jim Clayton: You know, believe in yourself or nobody else will.

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Welcome back to Shooting It Straight.

I'm Randy Black, and I'll be joined in conversation here shortly by my co-host, Elizabeth Clayton.

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On today's episode, we are stepping into a conversation that is both personal and meaningful.

One that that hits close to home for me, for Elizabeth, and for many of you who've reached out over the past several months.

We're talking about resilience in the face of losing someone you love.

And this isn't just a concept or a theory for us.

It's something that we've been walking through in real time.

Jim wasn't just a voice on this show.

For me, as an outsider from his family, I still felt like he was family.

And I know he's definitely family for Elizabeth.

He helped me in building this podcast from the ground up and getting started.

It was his ideas, his goals that shaped so many of the conversations we've had on here in those 11 episodes we had together.

And his presence will always be felt in every episode we have.

Losing him has left a space that.

can't really be filled, but it can be honored.

And that's what Elizabeth's trying to do.

And then

Shortly after that, about two months, November 24th, my family, my direct family suffered a loss.

And my father-in-law passed away that morning.

Two very strong losses in a very short span of time.

And that changes you

Grief has a way of slowing your world down, even as everything around you keeps moving.

It's heavy.

It's confusing.

And it forces you to rethink what resilience might actually look like.

So today Elizabeth and I are going to talk about that

We're going to talk about grieving.

We're going to talk about holding on to hope.

About about learning how to keep standing when life feels like it's knocked you flat.

And we're going to talk honestly.

We're going to talk about the good moments, the hard moments, the unexpected moments.

Because resilience isn't about pretending.

It's about showing up even when you're hurting.

Liz and I have been walking down this road through grief and all of this.

We hope that by talking about it, we are going to be able to share what this has looked like for us.

Our hope is that you as as you listen to this, you won't feel alone in whatever loss you may be carrying right now.

And if you're not in a season of grief yourself, we hope that this helps you understand how to support someone who is.

So let's jump into the conversation that Elizabeth and I had back at SportsCity U one more time in the studio that Jim and I set up there.

Okay, Liz, we're here for Sports City U and it is a a uh

surreal in a lot of ways, you know, to be to be back here, to be in this room where I sat with your dad and recorded and it's it's kind of fitting with what we're looking at today and talking about with the idea of

of grief and you know, using resilience to work your way through it.

You know, your dad and I spent eight episodes

talking about resilience, deep diving into it, looking at quotes, looking at scriptures and things to to kind of you know build up the idea of what resilience is and

How it is that we can use resilience to keep ourselves moving forward.

Not moving on, but moving forward

I know, and we we had the chance to to talk and record, you know, you know, uh look behind this the curtain here a little bit.

It's been a little while because we recorded several weeks ago and

In that time, uh I experienced tremendous amount of grief.

Uh I I mention it very briefly in that recording in that episode that

You know, my fat my father-in-law was ill and I wasn't gonna talk about it.

And on the 24th of November we lost him.

So as you and I are sitting here recording, it's been almost a month since that.

It's been over a month since that.

And it it kind of makes it

Makes it easier for me to be able to talk through this and talk about these ideas because I'm having to deal with it right now.

Um it it's not the same as what you've had to go through

in any way.

Um, I only knew my you know, I've only known my father in law for, you know, a short amount of time.

Didn't didn't have a huge amount of time with him.

But I cherish all the time I did have.

Um as as frustrated as he made me sometimes.

Um and I'd go to my wife and go, Oh, he did it.

And you know, and it was it was compounded further 'cause we live with him.

We live with him and losing him has been so painful and I think it was amplified more because we were there.

We were with him.

You know, we did everything we could to to try to save him.

And it it was his time.

Mm-hmm.

You know, the big man upstairs decided it was time and, you know, we didn't have any control on it.

Um

And I miss him every day, just like I miss your dad every day.

And I know you are you're working through it.

You're still you're still missing your dad every single moment of the day.

You know, we're sitting here and you ran out to the car.

You got if you got giant pictures that you had made of your dad that are sitting here with us.

So he's he's here with us, you know, physically in the pictures.

But I know he's here with us in spirit too, because this is this is his baby.

This is his building.

And this is where he and I got to start this and and start building this and

You know, our hope is, based on what we talked about in that last episode, is to to keep that going, to keep pushing forward, to try to continue that goal he had

of using this to help other people.

And I I'm I'm so happy that we're we're doing that.

You know, our focus is, like I say, we're talking about resilience.

after loss, you know, the idea of trying to to get through grief by being resilient, by having that power.

So we kind of want to

take the time to talk about, you know, each of our experiences through this.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna toss it with you first and kinda we'll work our way through the conversation of what that's like.

So for you.

With the loss of your dad.

And it's we're going on since December, so September, October, November, three months, four months, almost four, you know.

Yeah.

What has what is what is the grief that you've had like in your daily life been in that time?

Um, it's gone through different phases, to be honest.

Um, you know, in the beginning I was kind of numb to everything, um, because

You know, wasn't expecting him to pass away like he did and um like I talked about in the first episode, you know, he had been to visit me

And taking him to the concert in Louisville, and then five days later he was in the hospital with the the septic gallwater attack and a week later

you know, he passed away.

And um, you know, I even had this moment thinking, oh my gosh, if I would have known standing there on that Friday night at that concert with my dad that three weeks later I'd be standing at his visitation.

Right.

you know, talking to people and he was laying in a coffin.

Um, what would I w uh how fast life can go and change in the blink of an eye.

And um, you know, um

it what really helped me in the beginning stages of everything was just the outpouring of all the support and love for my father and for our family and of course um you were a big help in a in you know we

we had just kind of um really started talking at that point.

And um, you know, what you were able to do for

and pull together especially the slideshow for the um visitation and to to pull those clips from the podcast and walk in there and see the f the you know, I've looked at all those pictures

But it was like when you want it was different having his voice there.

And you know what I called it?

I think I told you I said this is a motivational meditation

You know, walking in it was like it was so surreal walking in there and and that's actually and you said that um

in the first podcast we were talking, you know, that's what really hit me when I walked in there and heard my dad talking.

And I told you, I said, we gotta do this podcast.

Mm-hmm.

Like it just hearing him talk

It really just something just told me like it probably was him.

That's you and me saying, hey, you gotta do this.

But um, you know, um

Just stuff like that after the, you know, after everything was over, you know, going back and watching that that you created and then um

his friend uh Jake Lieberman put together um that video for the service and it was so fitting for for my dad and um you know uh

It like I said, after the fact, uh probably what's really helped me is I have my dad's phone.

Yeah.

And he has fifteen thousand videos plus in here and just digging through all the things that he lo every time I'd see him he had this phone in his hand.

He was always doing something, creating something.

He would do a post every day

And so, you know, um, I just was really trying to dig deep and think of things that

to to build me up in the process and it keep me motivated and and and waking up every day and wanting to get up and and help people and um you know spread positivity and all the things my dad loved to do.

And so um

You know, it's uh it's been very interesting to say the least, but um the last few weeks have definitely been more tough than I thought it would be, you know.

A part of me just didn't even want to come home for Christmas.

Not that I didn't want to see my family.

Right.

Not that I didn't want to, you know

go through the Christmas traditions, but it was just a sadness that kinda overtook me the last few weeks.

I didn't put a Christmas tree up this year.

No.

I didn't want to decorate my house.

I didn't want to

get up and go to work the last few weeks.

Like, you know, it just grief hits you at different points and in different ways.

But um and and for a lot of people it's

Nobody else ever sees it.

No.

That's you know, if unless somebody came to your place Yeah, they don't know.

Yeah.

Um it it's the idea of

You know, what what does my my public grief look like versus my private grief?

You know, I've I took a week off from work after my father-in-law passed away.

My wife

Still hasn't come back to work yet.

She's going back on Friday, uh the week as we record this.

Um my my public grief was

I just wasn't there.

And a lot of people didn't know what had happened.

Once they did know, they, you know, expressed their condolences and how as people do.

But I kept on that face that everything's everything's gonna be okay.

I'm gonna make it through this.

But privately, I'm hurting.

And I know I know privately that, you know

My wife is hurting and she's she wakes up every day and still has to come to grips with the fact that her dad's not there.

You know, it's the same thing you're having to go through.

You're coming to the you know as as he said, sitting here one night, he said, I talk to her every day.

I talk to my daughter every day.

And you don't have that now.

And that's that's gotta be so hard.

You know, I live with my father in law, but there's days we didn't talk to each other, like in passing, just something real quick.

And that's like we sat down and had huge conversations about stuff.

Um but I still miss him tremendously.

Because he was right there every single day.

He was that constant in the house.

We knew when we came home that

Unless he was not feeling well, he was gonna be in the kitchen, he's gonna be cooking dinner, getting things ready.

Yeah.

That's that's what he did.

And it's it's a tough adjustment to not have that now.

Um and we're still

daily making those adjustments.

Um you know, privately, it's hard.

It's very hard.

You and I have talked

several different times and you know, you you've told me that you've had moments where you just you're upset, you don't want to do anything, you know, but you still want to continue on with everything your dad started and and keep the messages going and keep this stuff going.

And I know that's not easy.

It's it's not easy at all.

Um it's not easy one because no one else can ever be Jim Clayton.

We we don't have we don't have that skill set.

Um

I try to be as positive as I can be, but I can never be as positive as he was.

And I know that.

And I've known that for the almost 30 years I've I've known him.

So uh it it's not it's not easy, and I can't imagine.

You know, I can't imagine what it is, what it's like for you.

I see what it's like for my wife and what she's having to experience.

But I see it.

I don't feel it

And I know that, you know, you've you've been going through that now for three plus months.

And it's it can't be easy every day.

Yeah, it's definitely um that bit of change.

Um honestly, um, you know, I'm three hours away from Huntington, so and I've been gone for about fifteen years.

So I think just getting back into my routine was helpful.

um, for me because I didn't see my dad every day, but I did talk to him.

So, you know, getting back in that routine and just going through like my work life and

you know, um, social life and all that.

Um, that definitely helped me when I got back home 'cause I was here for almost a month, you know, after he died, 'cause I just we had a lot to do.

And um

I think going back and forth.

Your mom needed the help.

Yeah, and I just didn't want to leave her and uh you know um

It it's funny, uh, as it we we talked about doing this live recording today.

Um

As a as the the days have gone on, you know, of course, um, like this morning I woke up, I'm like, ugh, you know, it just we actually had a we have a um

We had to call a plumber today at my mom's house because like last night I went to go I was downstairs watching TV.

This is just a side note of things that can happen randomly.

And um the toilet just started bubbling.

I don't know.

What is going on?

So then I went to go get a snack.

Um the the pantry is like you open the basement door and there's the the the shell

and I heard dripping in the basement.

And it's pretty much empty 'cause it's flooded so much that there's nothing down there.

So something's going on.

So then this morning my mom ran the washing machine and water went all over the basement floor and ya so

Here she was having to deal with we had somebody come over and then she was calling a plumber and I was just kind of annoy not annoyed at her, but just it was just

a lot going on.

You couldn't use the toilet.

Yeah.

Yeah, you gotta so anyway, um I got in the car.

I said, I gotta go.

Mom, where's the key to sports today?

I gotta go.

So I went and got me a smoothie and I I on the way to the smoothie place I said

Okay, Dad, we're putting on the bounce back mentality part one and I'm gonna listen to it about resilience on the way up to Sports City.

And when that's when that second podcast started, man, it was like the water works just hit me driving up here and

I tell you what, you know, one of the first things he said on that episode was, you know, well he started talking about his cancer jury

And, you know, he said three years in September it'll be three years in September that he was diagnosed and that that hit me because, you know, he he basically that's

when everything happened and um you know but what I realized in that car right up here was what do I have to really complain about besides missing my dad in life I'm healthy

You know, I have a lot of life to live.

I lot you know, I have a lot of people to help.

I have a lot of great people in my life.

And people keep cheering me on.

One of the things that I've noticed since we started, you know, uh

We started posting about the podcast and then I started doing my little Monday believe achieve motivate messages as people come up to me and say, Hey, I saw your message.

And they'll tell me something about what what I said or what, you know, or something with the podcast, like, hey, that's so cool, you know, and

It it starts w we've we started something.

And you know, it's just like my dad said, if it only helps one person, that's all of it.

really matters.

And I've We have one person.

That's it.

But it's just amazing the conversations that have been started.

Since I've been doing these these little things and we've started, you know, what we're doing here and um

I just want to that's that's what's helping me more than anything through the grief process is um you know getting up every day and thinking about the things my dad would want me to focus on.

would want us to focus on in this podcast and that's helping people and spreading positivity and um you know just just uh

influencing people to do the right things and um have the right mindset and um no matter what happens

In life.

You can always get through it.

Yeah.

And um, you know, I like a he said the one of the very first things he said that second podcast was he said

Tough times don't last, tough people do.

And then he goes, I have my thirty second pity little pity party.

And he goes, You can't be pitiful and powerful at the same time

You gotta f just flick it off.

And so I were in the car on the way up here, I I flicked it off.

And I said, Okie dokie, here we go.

So um anyway.

It's just, you know

For everyone, grief manifests itself very differently.

Uh-huh.

Um, I spent a week

Not letting it show.

You know, it was four, roughly twenty after four in the morning on the twenty-fourth of November that we lost my father-in-law.

And we had visitation on Sunday, services on Monday.

So it was a full week.

And I had, you know

I didn't let it show.

And it was it was my way of trying to to be as strong as I could for my wife.

for her brother, my brother in law, for for the family in general, trying to to be a rock and hold everything together.

And we came back home after the funeral

And lots of different family members came over, friends.

Our pastor and his wife were there at the house and we had some food and stuff and everybody just kind of gathered together and

I'm I'm in the living room in the recliner and it's the recliner that my father-in-law always sat in.

That was his chair.

And I'm in the chair and I've wrapped my feet up and

It hits me.

It just it just hit me.

And my wife is in the kitchen and there's a nice big opening from the living room to the kitchen and she steps back and looks at me.

And she mouths to me, Are you okay?

And I just shook my head no

Because it it finally hit me.

That grief finally overwhelmed me.

You know, everybody's there and people are, you know, talking and sharing stories and enjoying food and everything.

And I'm sitting in this chair and I can't get up.

And everybody's like, are you okay?

Need something to eat?

I'm like, I'm okay.

And I wasn't.

And she knew I wasn't.

So after everybody left that evening and things calmed down, um

She she asked me, she goes, Did it finally get you?

Oh yeah, it did.

It finally hit me.

Um

And you know, I've I've had loss before.

All of my grandparents are gone.

And

Yes, there was grief and there was pain, but this is the man I lived with every day for

three and a half years from the point in time that we got married.

And I was at his house for the six months before that, almost every day.

You know, once things, you know, Beth and I got together, started seeing each other and then got married.

And

It's been the toughest I told everybody the toughest thing I ever had to do was to speak at your dad's funeral.

And I learned that

This is a whole lot tougher.

This has been a much much harder situation that if

My wife and her brother had looked at me and said, Could you speak at dad's services?

I couldn't have done it.

I could not have done it.

Um

You'd be surprised.

Uh I would have I would have found a way.

But I don't know that I would have I don't know that I would have been able to have

to have maintained the composure the way that I was able to with your dad.

You'd be surprised um you'd be surprised.

You know, and I tell every I tell people this.

I don't know that your dad would say I was his best friend, but for that last six months he was mine because we talked every single day.

And, you know, my father-in-law was not my dad.

My dad's still here and I'm lucky I still have him.

You know, he's gone through, you know

issues with an injury and heart attack and and prostate cancer and he's still here and he's still fighting and he still goes to work every day, still does what he needs to do.

Experiencing this grief with my father-in-law, I can't imagine what it's going to be like if something happens to my dad or something happens to my mom.

I'm

I don't know what I'll do.

I mean, it's it's it's going to be some of the most painful experiences of my life.

And I see it.

You know, I look at my wife and see that she's gone through this twice now.

She's lost both her parents.

In the time that we've been married, we've lost

Her mom's mom, her dad's mom, and now her dad.

And I've seen what that's been like.

And it's tough.

And and the grief associated with it is

It's some of the most painful things uh uh that I've ever experienced.

But I can't let it stop me.

And you know, that's that's kind of the whole point of

Of you know, the idea of resilience.

And I'm so I'm so glad that I got spent that time sitting in this room with your dad talking about resilience and talking about pushing forward.

Um because it helped me to be able to work through this situation that I'm still going through and I'm pushing forward.

I was fortunate, you know, quite a while back.

Uh it's been a month and a half ago from when we were recording, I believe, uh, that I was on another podcast.

with some gentlemen.

Um the Dudes and Dads podcast.

They're out in Indiana.

And the whole topic was about resilience.

And I was able to share all this stuff

That not only that I brought to the table, but more so stuff that I learned from your dad bringing it to the table and how we can use that to move forward.

Yeah.

Don't let it stop you

Don't quit.

Just keep pushing forward.

You know, I told I told my wife, this is gonna be the toughest times of our lives right now.

But we have to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

We got to keep moving forward.

And that's what we've done every step of the way through this whole process.

And I know it's a process that you go through.

You keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Um, I know that this has not been the easiest time for your mom.

I know it's not been necessarily the easiest time for your brother.

Um

But we all have kept moving forward.

We've kept trying to keep pushing forward.

Because if we don't,

What have we learned from it?

Nothing.

We've let it stop us.

We've let it stop our lives.

And we can't live that way.

If if if nothing else

Um, in the time that I spent sitting in this room, I learned that I can't let anything stop me from moving forward

And your dad's the one that pushed that on me.

We gotta keep going.

We gotta keep moving.

And because that's what he did.

You know, my father-in-law would he wouldn't say it

But he was the same way.

He kept pushing forward.

He kept trying to push things forward and things.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

And that's what I that's what I keep trying to do.

You know, I've looked back at at at things with

Um, the those episodes that I recorded with your dad and the idea of grief and how that, you know, grief is

It can be for some people a stopping point.

But we can't let it be that way because we have to to to take our mindset in grief and choose

To stay engaged with what we're doing.

Stay engaged with life.

You know, um just looking at some notes here that I pulled from some stuff.

The decision isn't

about being fine.

I'm fine.

I'm fine.

Well, you know, it it that's not what it is.

Or it's not that I'm moving on.

I'm not gonna keep moving on.

It's that I'm still here.

I'm still breathing.

I'm still choosing to push forward to tomorrow because it's the right thing to do.

Yeah.

You know, grief.

Grief can make you hold back.

You know, things like you just talked about a little bit ago.

Do you do you do you want to get up out of bed?

No, sometimes you don't.

It's it you don't you don't see the the motivation in it because you're hurting.

You're in pain, but you have to do it

It's hard in grief to talk about the person for a lot of people.

You know?

I

I haven't had that situation.

I talk about my father-in-law.

I talk about Bill a lot.

I miss him.

You know, a couple months before, I lost your dad.

And I talk about your dad all the time with people.

When I talk about what you know what I do outside of work and the hobbies I have and doing the podcasts and stuff

And for me, being able to talk about them, that's the positive thing that helps me to move forward.

I can't forget they existed.

That doesn't serve a purpose.

That diminishes the capacity they had in life.

And we can't do that.

So it's the idea that

In what we're doing, we have to allow ourselves to still feel.

We have to have those feelings, those emotions, those pain that we have to go through.

But we can't let it shut us down.

We can't let it stop us.

You know, it's that

With resilience in our lives and dealing with grief, we are choosing actively that we keep showing up, that we keep moving forward, even when we don't think we have the strength to do it.

And there are people in this world that struggle every day with that.

And I know that's the case.

But I look at people that I know were in some of the most stressful, painful moments of their lives

That you'd never know it.

Uh-huh.

Other than his physical appearance

You'd never know your dad was sick.

Because he was the same.

He was always the same.

But knowing him as long as I did,

And seeing his physical appearance, I knew he was sick.

Yeah.

And the first time I saw him once I knew how sick he was, I knew he was sick.

Like it was it was tough.

It was tough to see him.

Um

But that was what opened this door, what allowed me and him to build this and start this project and work on it.

We were able to work through what he was going through to get us here.

I hey we lost him.

I miss him.

But we're gonna carry it on because we're not gonna let the grief of missing him and losing him stop us.

We can't do that.

That's that's not gonna be good for anybody.

No.

There's too much he had too much uh he still has like I said, um he had a lot of life to live.

And I know physically he isn't here anymore, but he he still has messages for people to hear.

Yeah.

And however we deliver those messages

We're gonna work on that.

Yeah.

And it's like the things he taught us.

You know the funny like you say that like you know had a lot to live.

My father in law told everyone, I'm gonna live Tom, a hundred and forty seven.

That was what he said.

Yeah.

And

He got halfway there.

Like he really did.

He got halfway there.

Uh-huh.

Um He was unexpected.

We didn't expect it.

And, you know, it's it's tough.

Um

It's like, you know, like I just talked about pain.

Pain's a teacher.

Pain will help you to learn how well you can react to something.

Yeah.

How can you handle it?

But it's it's not a punishment.

And so many people view it as a punishment that pain is put upon us because we've done something wrong.

Pain is put upon us because we have to be tested and we have to be punished as part of that.

No, you don't.

That's not how it works.

Loss hurts.

Because this is directly off your word for it.

Loss hurts because love is real.

When you love someone and you lose them, that pain is is there.

Grief is

Not a sign that you are weak.

It is not a sign that you have failed in some way.

It's evidence that that person and you had a connection.

I had never like, I lost my grandparents.

And I cried.

I can remember it

I lost your dad.

And I cried so hard.

Like it it hit me.

My wife walked in and goes, Are you okay?

And I'm like, no, he's not here.

She's like, what?

I said he's gone.

And it hit so hard.

Um, and it's because I had spent so much time.

with him and getting close to him again.

Because I mean we work together.

We know each other for forever.

But it's the time that talking to him every day, exchanging, even if it was just text messages every day, it had nothing to do with this podcast and what we were doing.

We still talk to each other every single day.

And that was gone.

And it was hard.

Um, it was pain.

You know, grief teaches you what matters the most in your life.

Yeah, losing my father-in-law, I'm hurting.

And I know my wife's hurting.

Losing your dad, you're hurting.

Your mom's hurting.

Wes, Kayla, the girls, they're all hurting.

I'm hurting.

Because these people meant so much to us.

They were a core part of everything we did in this world.

Everything we do.

We love them so deeply.

I shared on the last episode and I told you the last night I recorded with your dad.

Uh-huh.

And every night we'd say, Love you, brother.

You know, do that fist bump or that quick cheesy guy hug and he grabbed me that night and hugged me.

And he had not done that before.

You know?

Uh-huh.

That that let me know

Where I stood with Jim Clayton.

I knew where I was stood, but that solidified it for me that I had become a core part

of his life and what he was doing.

And it meant so much to me.

And I regret that I didn't come to the hospital to see him.

But at the same time, I'm so happy that was the last time I got to see him.

Because it meant so much.

Um

And it's it's a memory that, as I said when I when I spoke at at the services, that I'm never gonna forget and I'm never gonna be able to let go of.

That it it meant that much.

And I and I I certainly hope that

Because that was, I don't want to say it was out of character, but it was a little out of character for him.

He wasn't he wasn't the you know the the touchy-feely kind of you know

give you a hug unless he really, really meant it.

That's that's who he was.

And I know that that was a powerful moment between he and I.

Oh yeah.

Um

The the idea here isn't that I'm not saying pain is good.

I'm not saying that at all.

Pain pain has meaning based on

our lives and based on our situations.

And it's what helps us to understand what's happening so that we can survive and we can move forward from it.

Um

Grief isn't something that's easy to fix.

You know, we we push through every day from it.

It's it's something that we have to

We have to listen to it because it's telling us this is how important this person was.

This is how meaningful this person was in your life

They had a purpose for you.

That you were involved for a reason.

And we have to look at it and and keep pushing from that.

And I feel like I'm talking a whole lot and I'm not letting you.

You're you're fine.

Huh, you're you're hitting some great points here.

I mean It you know

I I look at I look at things that you know people go through and it with this and you know

It goes back to what we talked about, what your dad and I talked about.

You know, resilience is not a skill.

that we have uh to bounce back as we said it the bounce back mentality to move forward it's not a it's not something we can do innately

We have to, we have to learn it.

We have to be exposed to something that creates that for us, that we have to push forward.

And

It's it's an experience that once you have it and you see I can do this, I can take what's happening, I can use it and I can move forward, that it changes your perspective.

It changes the way you look at things.

Um, I was not a big, I never said this to him, to your dad, I was never big on the idea of, you know, you have to keep pushing forward.

Until I sat down with him and we went through this and talked about these things, and I start, it starts opening my eyes to, oh, I need to re- I need to rethink this a little bit.

I need to look at this differently.

I learned more from him in 11 episodes of recording with him than I had learned in 45 years of being on this earth.

Um

because we were able to bring together ideas and things that we knew ultimately would help someone.

Yeah.

Whether it was helping me, which it did, whether it was helping him, which he says there you know, I would bring stuff to the table that would

catch him and he'd be like, oh wow, I didn't think about it this way.

You know.

But we also had other people who listened and said, Oh wow, that's really good.

I I like that idea.

Let's let's let me look at that and see what I can do with it.

Um

Resilience doesn't mean that we, you know, especially in grief, that we have to be strong all the time.

You can let it beat you down.

That's okay.

But you can't let it keep you down.

You know, it's not about ever moving on.

And we just talked about this before we started recording.

It's not about moving on.

Yeah.

It's about moving forward.

Yeah.

We can't erase the grief we feel.

We can't erase those feelings that we have in loss.

That makes us who we are.

Exactly.

It's part of the human experience, you know, having those feelings.

But we can let them

Help us to remember, to not forget the person, not forget these people that have been in our lives that were so important that allow us that chance to then move forward.

Not move on, move forward.

Because you can we we can never forget.

If you try to forget, you just put yourself into a situation where you have you have wasted all that time because you're spending it all trying to forget.

Let those memories stay.

It's gonna hurt.

It's gonna be painful.

But in the long run.

moving forward with them is a whole lot better than moving on and trying to forget because you're gonna circle right back around to it in the long run.

Um well it's funny uh

I was just reminded of something.

One of my my cousins, she's a therapist.

And this was a couple of years ago.

I remember she came she lives in Indianapolis.

She came down to Woolville to spend the day with me before Christmas.

and we just hung out and um and went and got some food at Whole Foods and we set up my kitchen table and we just talked all day.

We never even left and really did anything.

We just talked for the entire day.

And one of the things she shared with me, I don't remember what I was talking about, but

You're reminding me of of of one of the things she said that I haven't forgotten.

And she goes, it's okay to feel.

Feel tired, feel sad, be upset, feel this, all the net kind of more of the negative emotions that we we we have in our life.

She goes,

You have to feel, you know, we live in a society, and this is one of the topics my dad talked about, and I know you're gonna understand when I say this, but like we live in a society of of the quick fix.

Yep

And there's a pill you can take you you can go get an energy drink when you're tired.

You can go take an antidepressant when you're sad.

You can go get this for this and this for that.

And she goes, there's no quick fix

to to help you you know move through these emotions.

You can't just put a mask on it.

They're gonna come back.

So you have to, you know, let yourself feel these things.

you know, to i you know, if you're ever gonna move forward in life with whatever it is you're dealing with and you know, anytime I feel tired, I I kinda feel guilty sometimes.

Like my dad was that way.

He didn't sit down.

You know, when I was growing up

He uh on s like for instance, he'd be out mow he, you know, you think he'd be sitting in there just relaxed, you'd be out mowing the grass or running the vacuum cleaner.

And I'm like, then he'd be get me to start doing something.

I didn't want to do back in the day.

But anyway, it's um like I said, uh sometimes we just have to pause and work through these things.

And it's not a punishment

You know, um, it's uh like I said, we have to feel these things.

Yeah.

And it's a good thing.

We need that time to reflect, to move forward.

You know?

It's it's not a linear thing.

Grief is not linear in any way.

And it's gonna always crop back up.

You know, I know that

April fifteenth is gonna be a really hard day in my house.

Not because it's tax day, because that was my father in law's birthday.

Um, it's gonna be tough.

You know, I know that

The twenty yes, it was there.

It's funny, my friend that just called me, her birthday's April fifteenth, and I couldn't answer when you said that.

I'm like, well that's funny.

She just called me.

The

The the twenty fourth of November, it's gonna always be hard for us because that's the day we lost him.

You know, it's September eighteenth.

It's gonna be hard.

Huh.

Because that's the day we lost your dad.

You know, and he was what, a month from his birthday

You know, he was he was almost to seventy.

He did refer to him as being seventy already in your piecast, which made me laugh.

Dick.

He did

Because we finished I think after we recorded that the whatever day I was, I was like, You're not seventy.

He goes, I'm close enough.

I thought I said this.

Uh you know, those days are hard.

You know, we we already have days that are hard

you know, with with my wife, with, you know, the days that was her mom's birthday, the day her mom passed away, the her mom and dad's anniversary.

Those have always been very hard days.

for her and it was especially hard for her dad.

And they're gonna stay that way.

And that's okay.

You know, they're gonna come back, you know, those anniversaries, those birthdays.

Um

Beuloland.

That he wrote he wrote it driving to work when he was teaching at Hannon High School and one of Bill's favorite songs.

And it comes on because we listen to a lot of gospel music and when it comes on

In the last month it's been hard for her because she knows that was one of her dad's favorite songs.

You know, the memories will hit us at times.

Uh the little things.

Um

You know, we had a moment where something had happened.

It was something that my father-in-law just took care of, and it got missed.

And I said, it's okay.

I'll I'll go take care of it.

But it hit her so hard.

Um, little things like that are gonna happen.

It if it happens and we we have that the grief pop up, it doesn't mean we're failing at moving on in any way, shape, or form.

It means that

Grief is coming up because it's us revisiting the love we had for that person.

That it's it's it's always gonna be there.

Healing doesn't mean that we cry less

It means that we're finding ways to move forward while we still have those tears.

We still have that pain.

We still experience that.

You know, it's it's

It's the idea that grief is not something we have to conquer.

We don't have to defeat it.

It's not a fight.

It's not a it's not a boxing match.

It's not a UFC fight.

We don't have to win.

It's something we have to carry.

And we have to carry it, you know, with faith.

We have to carry it with honesty.

And we have to carry it together because we have to have that community around us to support us and help us.

We have to to learn how to live forward while we honor those people we've lost.

And that's that's probably one of the hardest things that

people, you know, people have to deal with and everything.

Um we have, you know, when you look at things and we look at grief and we look at what go through, there are some ways that we can

uh look at the situation and see, you know, through reflection, what's helped us?

What's helped us to get there

So I've got here on the notes that I I I put together for us, you know, something that says, What has helped each of us?

There's some ideas that are are there from things that have um

that have that have helped i in ways.

You know the idea that we've talked with people that we trust.

Mm-hmm

We've talked with people that we trust, people who we we know are gonna listen, who have our back, who love us, who support us, and and that is an experience that

you know, has has guided us in ways and helped us in ways to deal with it.

You know, the idea that this goes back to something even your dad had said in Nebuchadnezzar.

You have to have that quiet time.

You need time to set back, just reflect, just think about things.

Yeah, it hurts, but

Those memories are so so important in the experience because you can't ever forget.

You know, we have to have that quiet time.

Um

Another way, letting those emotions we have surface naturally.

You know, you just talked about it on the way here.

What did you do?

Huh.

Well, I knew I I knew what was about to happen when I got in the car and um 'cause my mom was outside and they were dealing with the plumbing situation and I could just I could feel it building up all day

you know, thinking about coming in here to Sports City and being with you sitting at this table.

Um and like I said, I've been here a few times in the last couple of weeks, you know, helping my mom do some things and um

It's just letting knowing that I'm gonna have to let go of all this at some point and what he created.

Yeah.

I still have it in my heart

We still have pictures and all the things to remember it all by, but just the the legacy of what this place means and um

you know, uh like I said, uh one of the things that you're talking about, like having the quiet time, I live by myself still.

I have my my little doggies, you know, at my apartment and um within this last month

I'll tell ya, um, uh the night of that concert, the the the last like real night that my dad and I spent together

One of the things I remember before the concert started, I had somebody take a picture of us sitting in the seats, you know, and you could see the amphitheater behind us.

And then right at the end of the concert, I kind of fought with myself.

There was a woman behind me and I said, Sha ask her to take a picture of me and my dad.

And so finally I turned around and I said

Would you take a picture of us?

And she took four photos.

And by the first or second one, she goes, Oh, turn your flash on.

It's something was wrong.

Well the way she took the pictures, they ended up being good.

And they ended up being real and you can see the stage in the background.

Well, I had one of those blown up into like an eight by ten and I had it at the you know, visitation, funeral, yada yada.

Well

What I did with that was I set it in front of on the middle of my dresser.

So when I'm laying in bed, you know, I walk in my room, I stare directly at that photo.

And so the other

come two weeks ago maybe I w uh I was home on a random night and I just walked to my bedroom and I sat on the edge of my bed and I just sat and stared at that photo.

I was by myself, and I couldn't stop staring at it.

And it was like it was so quiet, but that photo hit me differently.

And I just

Yeah.

And it's like I saw like a different perspective looking at it.

Like this was the last time I spent with my dad.

Mm-hmm.

And I thought of that before, but it really hit me harder this time.

And um I had another moment the other night.

Um, of course he this picture to the right of us that sits in my car.

And um it's kind of scared me a few times I've walked out and looked at it and I'm like thinking somebody's in my car, but it's just his picture.

And it makes me laugh at the same time.

But anyway, I sit and I'll say, Siri, play some recent music that I played, and it'll pull up a lot of the songs that my dad liked

Well, it's funny, my um you know Siri has a tendency to mess up.

Sometimes.

And it connects to my Bluetooth and my, you know, playing the Amazon music through my through my car.

Well, all of a sudden

It started playing the song from Three Dog Night, Shambhala.

Yeah.

And that's not what it said it was supposed to play in my car.

It was playing, it said had another song

Yeah.

But that was one of his favorite songs and he told me that night at the concert he loved that song and I'm like Dad Okay, I'll hear you loud and cleaner.

And so anyway, um

But anyway, you know, those moments of just sitting there and reflecting and taking the time to just be.

Yeah.

You know, 'cause things will hit you differently.

Oh yeah.

And you know, another thing that, you know, for me is I've got

among you know my family, among my wife's family, among even even most of the people I work with

I've got that community around me that's been supportive and it's stayed connected.

And that's another key thing we gotta do.

We have to stay connected with those communities.

I know, you know, you you live three plus hours away.

And you're two hours and forty five minutes.

Okay, two hours and forty-five minutes.

Your your connected community, the people that are there with you and and support you and hold you up

Most of them are there.

Yeah.

And it's, you know, you're fortunate that you have that because you've had the time to build that up and get that with being there.

Um, I was telling you just a a few minutes a little bit ago before we started about a a lady that I know whose mother just passed away on Christmas Eve.

And they live, you know, in one of the Carolinas, I don't know which one.

Um

And that, you know, her whole support network was her mother.

Yeah.

And now she's lost that.

So I'm sure there are people she works with, the people she knows, and they've gotten to know down there that's that's helped them, uh, you know, and helped in the situation for her to to have that support.

But most of her support network is back here, um, where she's from.

So it it can't be easy.

It has to be difficult.

Um

The other thing that that really has to to you have to look at and realize it's helpful and it will make things a little easier over time is you gotta rebuild your routines.

You can't let what has happened control everything and stop you in your tracks.

And that has been one of the key things that I've seen my wife do.

in this is that she's started to get back in those routines.

She's back to getting up at 445 or whatever time she gets up in the morning, 'cause I'm still asleep.

um and starting her day.

She'll do her whatever she does exercise wise and and and get ready for the day and get things going.

Even though she hasn't been going to work, she's still getting herself back into that mode.

You know, I've I spent that week off from work, you know, 'cause we actually, you know, everything happened the week of Thanksgiving, so I was already off work and I took the next week off

And that whole week I still kept putting myself back into my routines of getting up, getting ready, getting things going, to make sure that we kept things

going in that way to make sure our routine stayed in place.

And I'm sure you've probably done the same thing now that you're back, we've gotten back home and you got to go into work and keeping things going and making sure that

Your daily life isn't halted because of what happened.

You know, that's that's the key.

We can't let it stop us.

So we just say it, you can't

Move on, you gotta move forward.

Let me tell you, there so I work out at Orange Theory a couple of days a week in Louisville and um when I first started going there

They have these these quotes up on the wall and they're just like sentences that keep going with a period and some of them are like highlighted in orange and the rest of them in gray.

Well the very first thing I notice

couple years ago when I started working out there, one of the things you are entirely up to you.

Period.

And I always wanted to say something about that to my dad.

And bring that up.

But every time I go work out there That sounds like a gym you well I on the treadmill where I normally work out on, it's right above me.

And every time I go there I look at that

And then it just keeps me going and, you know, um like get like you said, getting back in that routine.

I think I kind of prefaced on that earlier when I got back home, you know, um

getting back in my routine was was a big help.

Yeah.

And and also, you know, um the one of the the last the the very first time I talked to you, we were talk your your the last recording y'all did was about habits

And um, you know, having those those daily habits, good habits in life.

And um, you know, uh

I started doing a program back in like April where I started counting my macros and um, you know, tracking and cooking and make you know, really looking at what I was eating.

And when I called that night and my dad goes, What are your habits?

I was making this healthy meal for myself.

Yeah.

And I was reading a very positive, inspiring book, and I got that out and showed him.

And um it was just a funny, funny memory in my head.

And that's what I try to think of

I try and funny, funny, um I don't know if you've seen these on social media.

Have you ever seen a vibration plate?

Have you seen them pop up where you stand on it and it's different levels why uh a couple weeks ago this thing kept popping up on my and I said, that looks really interesting.

We don't order that.

And so, um, anyway, uh I brought it home.

I d I I I brought it to my mom's house.

'cause I knew who would get a kick out of that.

Who do you think?

Very and Haiti.

And they've been on this thing the whole time.

And I said so Kayla was on it and of course I don't think my Mike got on it.

I don't think my mom or or my brother gone on it.

But um

I said, Cassidy, you need to get one of these things.

And today Veer Veera was sitting on it.

She goes, This is making me sleepy.

I said, that's good.

That's it.

It calms you down.

It kind of just relaxes you.

And so anyway, um

You know, just finding those things that really uh help you on a day to day basis.

Um I'll tell you a funny story

to end on this note on this topic here.

When I was little, you know, my dad had to get up at uh what

five o'clock in the morning, four forty five, like you're you know, you're talking like your wife and 'cause he would go to you know teach school every day.

Right.

And

I must have woken up.

He would get up and he was in this we had this one of those block TVs that looked like furniture downstairs back in the early nineties with a VCR on top.

And he w I walked down to get a glass of water at like

five o'clock in the morning before I got up for school and um he was down there in the floor doing an ab workout.

And I'll never f

I I'm I'm what forty years old?

I was what maybe seven, eight years old at the time.

I've never forgotten that moment.

It like something stuck with me, seeing my dad down there busting his hump.

This is what he did before he he got he took a shower, got ready for his work day.

And then of course he'd go teach Sports City in the evening on top of it.

Yeah.

You know, eighteen hour day.

He had his routines.

He had his routines.

But there's something, whenever I think I can't do something, I am not a morning person.

I've never been and I never will be.

I've got decker.

I will tell you you, that's something, you know, we could we you and I need to work on that.

That's one of our goals right now, okay?

Um, but that's something when I think of when I think, I don't want to do this in the morning.

Or I don't whatever.

I f some that I'm always reminded of my dad in there at five o'clock in the morning doing that ab workout on the VCR, you know, before he started his day.

And you know, um, it's uh like I said, having that routine

You know, I mean it it made a clear impact upon you.

Yeah.

That you saw him, you know, this is this is how he has to get this done.

Mm-hmm.

And it's it's it's had that.

Yeah.

Um, so

When we look at this and we talk about what's helped, we also have to look at the flip side of that, what what really hasn't helped, what doesn't help.

And a couple things that I listed here, like the first one really sticks out at me because you hear it from everybody.

And they don't mean it.

They don't mean it to come across this way.

But it's this

Those well-meaning cliches like, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Yeah, I understand it.

That's why you're here.

You're here to express that sympathy.

Yeah.

But you hear it said over and over.

And at some point.

You get tired of hearing it because it doesn't really help.

What you know what I found is the the the more helpful thing to hear is those stories about that person you've lost.

I at at the visitation for your dad.

I uh it's really funny.

I uh I was standing there and I saw

Um West Virginia wrestling legend Bill Archer come in with his wife, Diane.

Yeah.

And I love Bill.

I love Diane.

They're customers of my parents.

I worked with Robbie at Huntington High, their son, Rob, great.

I can still consider Rob to be

a great friend and I knew that Diane wanted to make sure she got through the line, but Bill wasn't gonna be able to do it.

So I got put on what I call Bill Archer duty.

And I took Bill and we went and sat down and we showed the side.

And the goal was when Diane got up front, she'd signal and I'd bring Bill up to her.

And

As I sat there with Bill, I heard so many stories of your dad and of when they work together and your dad as a teacher and as a coach and all these things.

that, you know, hearing about him from someone else's perspective, and it was a perspective with respect and with love for what he did and the things he did, you know

That meant a lot.

And it was better than hearing the, oh, I'm so sorry that you and you you lost your friend.

I get it.

We understand that you are.

It's why you're here.

You wouldn't be here otherwise.

Um, but that, you know, those well-meaning cliches can kinda they can wear on you.

I can't tell you how many people, well, I'm in the receiving line with my wife and my brother-in-law and and their aunt.

And everything.

Rather, oh, we're so sorry.

We're so We get it.

We we understand.

You wouldn't be here.

Tell us something that is

is meaningful.

How did this person impact your life?

What did they have to do?

You know, it's like we when we published

About your dad's passing.

And we and even even in the obituary, we had the phone number for people to call.

And I took those and made a podcast episode out of them to hear those story.

Of, you know, my favorite one is about the twins getting in a fight and your dad walking over to them and picking up, pulling them up and just talking to him.

And their mother has no idea to this day what he said to them.

But it never happened again.

Those kind of stories are meaningful and powerful and help you to remember what this person was like

I've heard stories about my father-in-law lately that I'd never heard before.

Stuff that I'm like, wow, that's awesome.

You know, that's the kind of stuff that's better for us to hear.

You know, not, you know, and I get it.

Some people they say what they think is expected, what they want you to hear.

And that, you know, that in essence is what a cliche is.

It's what you expect.

Um, but they're not the most helpful things.

Um

Yeah, your your dad's viewing was I got there at 3 30 that day and I left at just after eleven.

And that was that was not long after the line had finally finished.

It was it was a long day.

So I'm sure that you and Wes and your mom heard those cliches so many times.

You know what, to be honest, as you're saying this, um

Pretty much everybody that came through that line had something funny or positive to say.

And there really wasn't maybe like a close friend of mine or something like that

Somebody who didn't have the c the say that connection.

They well Em I think pretty much ev with the way my dad was

and how he lived his life, everybody had a connection with him.

That's good.

In some way, shape or form, and I ha you know, I'm not wha what's the word I'm well I'm looking for?

Uh uh sound kind of egotistic, what do you call it?

Like that's not I know, but he really

Just the way that he was as a human being, he had an impact on anybody he talked to.

He had some kind of an impact.

And they didn't forget No, and and it's because that's what he tried to do

Just who he was as a human being.

And um, you know, one of the things I remember from standing in that line

was um one of the things I also realized after the fact, um, never really asked my dad a lot about his college days.

You know, he went to um Virginia Tech for what, like a year or year?

And then he transferred to West Virginia Tech.

So um

Two of so he was in a SIGEP fraternity.

And um I guess the each fraternity had like the the women the they had like a group of women that they kind of

I d I don't really I wasn't in a a sorority i in college but apparently at West Virginia Tech they ha they were called the

Golden hearts, that's who the the SIG Up fraternity, they I think I'm saying that right.

They the women in that group, they they kind of well

Two of the sorority the two of the women that were uh uh went to school with my dad came through their line I'd never met him before.

And then they started telling me, you know, the the the fraternity members looked out

for the the sorority girls and made sure they were safe on campus and got around and they my dad taught some class or something she was telling me about one of them was telling me about

like how to be safe on campus and this is what you shouldn't do and just how n how helpful and how just just just the type of person my dad was back then before I was ever even thought of.

And um

You know, uh I went and got dug out his three-year book a few weeks ago and I screw I took pictures of I found it, every picture in all three yearbooks, and I thought

That was my dad.

I mean, it really cracks me up.

Um it literally the photos, I think I even sent one to you too because there was a photo of him at a women's basketball game.

the West Virginia Tech women's basketball team.

And he was sitting, I guess the men's basketball team would go and watch.

They would have to go and support the team.

But the way he was sitting in the stands, looking they the the group was at like a timeout

uh during the game and he was sitting up there like looking like he was actively watching what they were doing and and he had a c his facial expression, he had that care.

Yeah.

Like like you know

He was he was actively trying to be involved.

Involved who and helped them.

And this was way before he even got into coaching.

Yeah.

You know, w well not far off, but you know it just

just seeing him in, you know, in in that capacity really um and hearing from his the sorority, you know, the girls in the sorority, just how who my dad was back then.

Yeah.

It uh

It was just really neat.

And it it's it's better than the I'm so sorry for your loss.

That's it.

It's so much better to hear those things.

You know it you know, as w as we move on with it, you know, the whole idea is that, you know

As we're working through all this, you know, other things that are helpful, we can't feel like

There is a schedule to what we are doing.

We just talked about it.

Grief is not linear.

Yeah.

As we work our way through this, there is no there there is no reason why we work through it on our own.

that we we we have to follow this specific way.

Um there's there's a pressure that gets put on people

to bounce back, to use that word, use that phrase to bounce back, a pressure to to move forward and and to keep going.

And

That's not helpful.

You know, all the you know, I I've heard people say in the last you know month especially, you know, oh but we we can we can just push right on through.

We'll we'll get through everything.

And that's not necessarily true.

It's not necessarily the case.

It's not that easy.

You know, we can't just keep pushing forward.

Um another thing that's not helpful i in these whole situations is you've got all these people who are immediately there for support.

That's a big one.

And then they disappear.

It's a big one.

And you don't you don't have like that first that that window of time up until the funeral, you've got all these people who are there and tried to help and try to do things.

And then they just I don't say vanish, but in a lot of time in a lot of ways they do.

Um and I don't like I could

I can spend time naming names.

I'm not going to.

But I've seen it.

I've seen it personally.

There are things happen.

I'm sure you've seen it.

Oh, yeah.

Everything with your dad.

That, you know, everybody's there when they think you need them the most.

But when you really need people the most is when everybody disappears.

That's it.

We the grief, yes, we're in grief and we're we're struggling and we're trying to

to handle situations and make our way through and miss this person that we love so much when once everybody else is gone

We're still doing that.

We're still working through that.

And we need them just as much then as we did a week ago, as a month ago.

Um, my wife and I are fortunate that we have

Um, we have a couple who are we consider them close friends.

They go to our church and you know she and she and her friend they've been friends

almost as long as I've known my wife.

Like I've known my wife for twenty plus years.

Yeah.

It wasn't until the last four years that we've we've gotten together and and and had this chance to have this relationship and and and live our lives together.

But

Her friend has been by her side every step of the way through everything that's happened.

And we know that she's always there

And that's such a such a positive influence.

If we need something, we make a phone call.

We send a text message.

And the same thing with her husband.

We can let him know and he'll be there.

Her mother is even close.

Her mother was a very good friend to to my father-in-law.

And if we if we need something, we know we can reach out to them.

They're there all the time.

And she's every day.

She's checking in on my wife and making sure she's okay and seeing that things are good.

So I've seen the flip side of that where they didn't disappear.

They're still there.

They're always going to be there.

But other people

And I hate to say it, sometimes it's even people who are family.

Yeah.

Disappear.

Um, I can you know, I can say from my own experiences I've seen.

That's also how people cope too.

In a sense it's not necessarily that they they just cope with just

There are there are a lot of people that that is their way.

They they pull back and disconnect because they they're trying to hide from the pain.

Yeah.

It's it's part of the way they're trying to grieve.

doesn't necessarily mean that it's helpful.

It's just how they have to do it.

And I'm not saying I can I don't say that, you know, this is something that happens to to ridicule somebody.

Because I'm not.

Everybody has to handle things in their own way.

It's that

We don't necessarily always have the support afterwards that we always need.

And that's what's not helpful.

And a lot of people don't think about that.

They don't consider that

Um, there's people who think, well, the funeral's over, they're gonna be okay.

No, not necessarily.

Um, there's still struggles.

There's things that happen daily you have to deal with.

We have to work our way through.

And it's not easy.

It's tough.

It's hard.

And if we had people there with us along the way, we could we could do not necessarily I don't want to say better, but we could do things

with more support to push our way forward.

Well, and it's funny, one of the things I think my dad prefaced on in one of Yarl's episodes, you know, T talked about when it flooded and he said the people who just show up.

and just r they're in the trenches with you.

They don't say, what do you need?

What can I do?

Like they just get a sh they just get a shovel and start moving the mud.

And that those are the kind of people now, I will tell you, um, as you're sitting here talking

you know, um one of the, you know, uh like your your your your your uh you know, wife's best friend, the couple you were talking about.

You know, I've got certain friends in my life that we don't talk every day.

There might be weeks or months we don't talk.

But one of the things that meant a lot to me, um, you know, like the day my dad passed away.

You know, I did it I kind of had a weird feeling the day before, but um that morning when the doctor tapped me on the shoulder before I was by myself with my dad and uh I knew.

This is I had we had to call everybody.

Well, my best friend who lives three hours north, you know, um, she I remember t texting her and she called me.

She goes, Do you want me to get the car and come now

'Cause she worked for my dad at one point.

She would design things for my dad.

She had a active rel you know, she was she she knew my dad very well.

She got in the car and she drove that three hours and by damn she came.

She she uh she she she made her way down and she walked in that hospital and she was there.

I didn't ask sh she just did it.

Yeah.

And then of course she went back home and then she came back for the funeral and she created what was really cool.

I said, Can you

create something like a pu like some kind of artwork of my dad, something that like just so we can display at the

Well she had a she cause she's in that graphic design artistry world and um she had a guy who created did the character caricature of my dad and then she put all this stuff together and

framed it.

And we I hung it in the kitchen at my mom's house and it's just so unique and, you know, um I it's just

People don't realize the the the things that they do and the process of of grief and loss, how much it really means.

And she and I, we don't talk every day

Well, there might be a it's been a couple weeks, you know, but I know if I call her she's gonna pick right up.

But you know, and then when I went back to Louisville, you know, none of th no no one from Louisville could come and be at the

people my my immediate friends who uh back there but you know, one of the things that really struck me I was working on a Saturday 'cause I still work for Dillard's part time.

I can't just let that job go.

I like it too much.

Um

Uh one of the girls I worked with, she's friend friends with my other best friend and she was going to get something to eat.

And I said, Uh, never mind.

Well she knew how much I love this place called Chicken Salad Chick.

They don't have it here, but um

Sh my other friend was working at the other mall and she met up with her and they put this big thing of food together for me from chicken sound chicken brought it back to me.

I was still working.

I remember looking at that going

She goes, I had no idea your dad passed away and yada yada.

And it was just, you know, she had no idea.

I didn't tell her any of that, but my friend did.

And things just things out of the blue

You know, people didn't know my dad, but all the people that have come out of the Warwick, they see the posts.

They see the videos.

And one of my other friends, this is my last note, we met at Starbucks

about a week and a half ago.

And she just she she's such a nice person.

She goes, I just want your dad looked like a really he was very inspirational.

She gave me this book.

She goes, I want you to have this.

When somebody I know that, you know, has somebody pass away or they lose, this is what really helped me.

And it's called the Dash.

And it's a book about the poem

The dash.

And I said, You did not have to do that.

But she goes, I know how much your dad meant to you.

And she never met my dad.

Correct

But she didn't have to do that.

She wanted to meet me at Starbucks and talk about this.

Yeah.

And sometimes it's it's uh

the people you don't even think of you know sometimes they come out and they care.

And um then you know you think about other people who you think would care.

Exactly.

At the end of the day, you know They're not necessarily there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So anybody who who listens to this and this episode comes out, you know, we kind of we kind of make sure that we

give them the chance to to find ways to to to look at grief for themselves and how they handle it.

So what we what we need everybody to understand is that you have to give yourself

permission to grieve fully.

You have to let that happen.

You can't hold it in.

You can't hold back those emotions.

You have to go through the process.

And that process

may not look the same for you as it does for somebody else.

You have to do it.

You have to allow the emotions to flow.

So you have to even let the positive emotions flow.

You have to feel joy sometimes.

You have to laugh.

You have to have those memories pop up that make you feel good, but you don't feel guilty about them.

Yeah.

You know, every time you and I talk,

We somehow always talk about your dad.

And it's always a positive thing because we know that helps us.

Yeah.

That helps us handle how we deal with the situation.

The biggest thing though we have to make sure people understand is that it's okay to reach out for support before you reach that breaking point while you greet.

It's okay to do so.

So for anybody who might be listening to this, if you need that support,

You know, we're we're gonna put in the show notes for the episode here a list of some grief support resources.

I've got several here, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, let's.

ten or twelve here that you can use to to look at and and try to find ways to to make sure that you're getting what you need as you go through this process.

Because that's that's the whole goal was to make sure that

You are able to grieve.

Because if you don't, it's just going to keep coming back.

It's going to keep coming back.

You're never going to move on

It's exactly what we said to each other before we started.

It's not about moving on.

It's about moving forward.

That's the goal.

You move forward with your life.

Don't forget them.

They're gonna go with us as we move along.

You you can't forget them.

Those memories are always there.

They have put an impression upon you in your memories in your life.

They have helped to build you up to what you are

You can never forget that.

And that's the goal.

We have to look at grief and use it as a way to move forward.

Not move on, move forward.

And that's what we're doing here.

You know, if you really look at it, um, you know, you and I are coming together throughout this whole grief process of

You know, it's interesting, you know, I know you you lost your father in law.

I had lost a really good friend of mine about a month before my dad died.

Yeah.

And I was going through the grief of that because I'd she she had gone through a journey I had no idea she had been on

And I didn't know about she passed.

And I said, why didn't she tell any of us about it?

We had no idea, so we couldn't help her.

We were putting all the pieces together after the fact.

But I remember

She was telling my dad about what happened to her.

I almost didn't want to talk about it because it was a similar thing my dad was going through.

And um, you know, uh it was literally a month

after, you know, with what happened to my dad after she passed.

And um you know, I'd already been kind of through that grief process a little bit, losing her.

And then of course, you know, we went through it with my dad.

And then your father in law passed.

And, you know, in the process of all this It delayed us and what our plans were and what we were trying to do.

But regardless, you and you know, you were dealing with the grief of losing my dad and what you all created together.

I knew how important what you all created together was to the both of you.

And I like I said, number one, my dad, and the message he was trying to get out and what was so important to him in the process.

And um

You know, this is gonna help both of us through the process and then whoever listens to us on top of it

We have no idea how many people it's gonna help.

And that's and that's and that's the whole thing like we that your dad and I said all along is that if in some way

What we talk about helps you?

Let us know.

Yeah.

We have a contact form on the website for the show, shooting it straight podcast.

com slash contact

Fill that out.

Yeah.

Send that in and you know let us know if we've done something, said something that's helped you in some way

And in doing so, that helps us to understand the value that we're providing out to you by listening and listening to us share on what it is.

We're learning and developing and going through and especially this with grief and what we're having to go through.

You just today my mom uh before I

got the card to come here.

She goes, hey, did you see the Christmas card from your uh cousin Tim, which is my dad's first cousin, and um

He actually wrote our he wrote a note on the back of the card.

He said, Hey, um, you know, I've been listening to this of the podcast, and he has an archery group, uh, a boys' archery group, probably

you know, I don't know their age.

There's thirty-six of them.

He goes, I've been sharing some of the things I've been learning on the podcast with with the uh the archery group that I have.

Awesome.

And then of course one of the the people that popped up recently

Um, one of the coaches, actually she's good friends with her name's Linda Bennett.

She coached at University of Charleston.

She's good friends with Greg White and she didn't know my dad had passed.

I was at work one day, like two three weeks ago right before Thanksgiving, and my dad's phone rings.

And it says Linda, and I'm thinking, Linda?

Something told me to answer the phone.

Well, it was her.

And so she had been somewhere and found out my dad passed, had no idea he had passed.

So anyway

She came, was in Huntington for Thanksgiving, and I said, well, stop by, you know, after you're done.

We want I want to see you.

Well, I told her, I said, you gotta listen to my dad, the podcast.

Well, she texted me and said, She goes, You have not it.

She goes, This has been helping me so much.

You know, she goes, I was kind of in a rut and just needed that 'cause she she loved my dad so much.

And so

Just so many of the people that I've talked about in the podcast with, they're actually listening to these episodes that you all recorded.

And that that that really that that really uh

It it uh stirs a heart string in me.

You remember my dad saying that one of your episodes, like there's just something about it, you know, and that's I know that he's not here.

physically with us right now.

But what you walk what you all were able to do in that short amount of time, you know, all the people that are gonna listen to those.

Yeah.

And as it's not going anywhere.

They're going to be able to do that.

You know, I'm not my dad, but at the end of the day, I am full of of a lot of things that he taught me, and I I I just hope that we can have a similar impact.

Yeah.

So I'm going to close out with this last statement and then we'll we'll move on to closing out the show.

But I'm going to close out with this.

Resilience in grief isn't about getting back to normal.

Because it's never gonna be normal.

It's about learning how to live forward while we honor what we lost.

That's how we move forward and be resilient in our grief.

Before we move on, I want to take a moment to speak directly to anyone listening who might be carrying their own grief right now, as we did in the conversation.

You know, we know that conversations like this can stir up a lot of emotions.

And if that's happening for you, we want you to know that you don't have to walk through this alone.

As we mentioned in our conversation in the show notes for this episode, we've included a list of grief support resources, some organizations, books, and

support lines that are available if you need someone to talk to or if you're just looking for some guidance as you navigate through loss.

Whether you're in the early days of grief or you're further down the road, these resources are there for you.

And I'd really encourage you to take a look at them

and maybe use them in your own life to help you as you work through this process.

With that said, we're going to move on in the episode and we're going to transition to.

My the segment that I've created that has become my most favorite segment of all time.

When I did it with my my good friend and my former co-host Jim Clayton.

And that's called the Wisdom of the Week.

Now it's time for our wisdom of the week.

It's a moment where we pause, reflect, and

Share a thought that's meant to ground us.

Especially in seasons like this, we have to find something that will help carry us on and carry and move us forward.

Our wisdom of the week this week is built on a very simple but a powerful truth that can apply here very easily.

And that is that hope is not a feeling.

It's a choice to look beyond what you see.

When you're walking through grief, hope is often the first thing people think you've lost

And the truth is, in in seasons like this, hope rarely feels strong.

It doesn't always come with confidence or clarity.

Most days it it doesn't even feel present at all.

But hope isn't the same as optimism.

It isn't pretending that everything's okay, and it isn't forcing yourself to see the bright side.

Hope is choosing, sometimes moment by moment, to believe that what you're experiencing right now is not the end of the story.

Grief has a way of narrowing our vision.

All we can see is the loss, the empty space, the change that we didn't ask for.

And in those moments, choosing hope doesn't mean denying the pain.

It means acknowledging it and still deciding that to take the next step forward.

Hope might look like getting out of bed when you don't want to.

It might look like asking for help.

It might look like allowing yourself to laugh again without guilt.

In seasons of loss, hope is quiet.

It's steady.

And it's resilient.

It's not about what you feel.

It's about what you choose to hold on to when feelings fail you.

So wherever you are today, if hope feels distant, remember this.

You don't have to feel hopeful to choose hope.

Sometimes choosing to look beyond what you see right now is the strongest step that you can take.

As we bring this episode to a close, I want to thank you for spending time with us, especially on a topic that

isn't easy to listen to or to talk about.

Grief doesn't come with clear answers and it doesn't follow a schedule.

It shows up when it wants to.

in ways that we don't expect and sometimes long after we think we've already dealt with it.

If there's one thing I can hope you take away from today, it's this.

Whether you whatever it is you're feeling right now, that's valid.

Whether you're deep in grief, somewhere in the middle, or carrying a loss from years ago that still finds its way back to the surface, you're not broken.

And you're not doing this wrong

Elizabeth and I didn't share this conversation because we figured grief out.

We shared it because we're still in it.

We're still learning.

We're still adjusting.

Still choosing day by day to move forward while carrying what we've lost with us.

If this episode stirred you in something in you, I encourage you to take a look at the resources that we've mentioned more than once now.

that they're linked here in our show notes.

You can find them by heading over to shootingitstraightpodcast.

com slash zero one seven and that's the page for this episode.

Reaching out for support isn't weakness.

It's wisdom.

And sometimes the most resilient thing you can do is admit that you don't want to walk this road alone

Thank you for trusting us with this space.

Thank you for listening with open hearts.

And wherever you are on your journey, I hope you know this.

You don't have to have everything figured out to take the next step.

Join us on the next episode of Shooting It Straight.

where we'll keep doing exactly what we've done from day number one, having clear talk about topics that we hope help you in some way.

Join us then

Coach Jim Clayton: Bam, son.